BANK Interview 采访（上) | "颠覆与重塑" ——靳山的雕塑美学
艺术家靳山在洛杉矶首次个展刚刚开幕，位于同期他也参加了洛杉矶郡立艺术博物馆（LACMA）的大型群展“物之魅力：当代中国“材质艺术”。该展览是第一次通过材质学术性系统回顾中国当代艺术。由巫鸿联合洛杉矶郡立艺术博物馆，Smart美术馆副策展人, 芝加哥大学东南亚艺术中心负责人Harrie A. Vanderstappen及 Smart 美术馆全球当代艺术策展人Orianna Cacchione 共同策划。该展览汇集了从80年代末至今30年的35件作品，是洛杉矶首场中国当代艺术大型展览。
The artist just opened his first solo show in Los Angeles. He was also part of a large group exhibition at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA) ‘The Allure of Matter: Material Art from China’, This exhibition is accompanied by the first scholarly volume to examine Chinese art through the lens of materiality. It is co-authored by the exhibition's curators, Wu Hung, Smart Museum Adjunct Curator, Harrie A. Vanderstappen, Director of the Center for the Art of East Asia at the University of Chicago, with Orianna Cacchione, Smart Museum Curator of Global Contemporary Art. The show brings together 35 artworks in total from the late 80s until today, into the first large-scale exhibition of Chinese contemporary art in LA.
BANK 小报在两次展览之际，采访了艺术家靳山。我们回顾靳山自90年代始至今的艺术生涯，作为一名活跃的中国艺术家在海外个展筹备中所遇到的结构性或随机性的困境/问题——作为外来者的心理状况，画廊空间本身的障碍，美国观众的袒露直接等。他视作自小接触的古典雕塑美学教育为一种“被动的殖民”，“主动输出”的此次个展，而后产生自己的美学，如此种种，这致使他将这些元素作为所做工作的起点。
The BANK ZINE interviewed Chinese artist Jin Shan in occasion of his two most recent exhibitions. We reviewed his artistic journey since the 1990s, and the structural and cultural obstacles he encountered while in preparation of his solo show overseas. Jin Shan opens up about the challenges of having an American audience, art education in China and crafting his own aesthetics in response to what he calls “passive colonization” from the West.
_________
BANK 小报由BANK团队呈现，我们将以“主动”姿态采访/回顾/研究艺术家，不定期以各种方式呈现成果。
BANK Zine is presented by BANK Young Team, we will initiatively make research/interview/review artists and present it non-scheduledly.
BANK Zine makers/小报团队: Min, Francesco, Chen Wu, Siyan, Racheal
靳山作品于Night Gallery的展览现场
01
这是你在洛杉矶的首次个展，你感觉如何呢？与中国相比，那儿的艺术氛围如何？
This is your first solo exhibition in Los Angeles. How do you feel? How does the art scene here differ from the one in China?
洛杉矶这几年的艺术气氛我觉得很棒，我很吃惊。同时对他们从业人员的素质是印象比较深刻，这展览的成功和他们每个人的敬业也有很大的关系。那儿的观众非常的热情，特别愿意跟你交流，会问你各种各样的问题。 展览前后可能有好几百人吧。
我在洛杉矶作为一个外来的艺术家，他们肯定也希望看看不同国家的艺术家在想一些什么问题。很多不同国籍的艺术家住在洛杉矶，相对于驻地洛杉矶的艺术家而言，我是一个外来客，所以心理上可能有一点落差吧。
那洛杉矶的华人艺术家不多，在洛杉矶发展的中国艺术家也不多。早期的时候像我们老师的那代人更多选择的是纽约，不过最近几年国内的画廊，艺术市场开始兴起，艺术家跟本地的画廊有销售合作，所以中国的艺术家更多的选择在国内创作。他们可能不愿意在国外生活，因为有很多文化差异。在不同的国家发展他难度是不一样的，艺术家可能不被逼到那个份上，他们也不一定要去选择那样的一个方向。
I feel great about the artistic atmosphere of Los Angeles in recent years. It’s pretty surprising. I am also deeply impressed by people who working so hard in this industry. The success of this exhibition has a lot to do with their dedication. The Los Angeles audience is very enthusiastic, very eager to talk to you and ask questions. There may be hundreds of people before and after the exhibition.
I am a foreign artist in Los Angeles, and the public here wants to see what artists in different countries are thinking about. Many foreign artists live in Los Angeles. Compared to the other artists in Los Angeles, I am a complete foreigner, so there may be a slight gap in terms of our thinking process.
There are not many Chinese artists in Los Angeles. In the old days, the generation of our art school professors usually chose New York. However, in recent years, Chinese domestic galleries and art markets have started to rise. Chinese artists have sales cooperation with local galleries so they have more of a possibility to create in China. They may not want to live abroad because of the cultural gap. It is not as easy to develop in a foreign country. Nowadays unless they are forced to do so, artists do not necessarily have to move abroad.
洛杉矶见闻，靳山摄于洛杉矶
四年前我去过一次，那时候我没有在洛杉矶做展览，而是在它旁边的一个城市的美术馆里做了个群展。那时很多大的画廊还没在洛杉矶边成立，而现在在市中心的区域有很多大的仓库被改造成画廊的一个聚集区，非常的热闹。那里很多画廊做的展览都是美术馆级别的。我印象非常深刻。另外还有一些艺术家在洛杉矶做了自己的小空间，非常的多元化，画廊整体的气氛很棒，非常有上升的趋势。
以前的艺术中心在纽约，别人提到洛杉矶就觉得那个地方跟纽约是没办法比的，展馆的数量上面，艺术机构的数量、艺术家的数量都没办法去比。但是这几年很多我碰到的艺术家都是从纽约移居到洛杉矶的。我问他们为什么？他们就告诉我 “纽约的生活的成本很高，要比洛杉矶高30%甚至到40%。” 现在洛杉矶有这样的土壤，有艺术空间，有商业的艺术机构，那几个老牌的美术馆都在那边，为这个城市源源不断的输送艺术血液，这个是跟洛杉矶的这个生活的成本相对来说比较低一点有很大的关系。我觉得在这一点上跟上海是有点像，当然上海不便宜哈。但两个城市都是处在冉冉上升的这么一种趋势，我比较看好洛杉矶。我喜欢那边各种各样的人，有那种老老实实读书的人也有奇奇怪怪的人。洛杉矶的多元化是任何一个地方没办法替代的，这对我来说印象很深。
I came to Los Angeles 4 years ago. At that time, I wasn’t exhibiting there, but I was part of a group exhibition at a museum close to L.a. At that time large galleries still had not been established in Los Angeles, but now many large warehouses in the downtown area have been turned into exhibition spaces. The shows put on in such spaces are even at art gallery level. I am very impressed. In addition, some artists have created their own little exhibition space in Los Angeles, which makes the scene very diverse. The overall situation for galleries is very good and the trend is definitely on the rise.
靳山作品于Night Gallery的展览现场
02
你最主要的灵感来源是什么？谁又是最影响你艺术创作的人？你们彼此间为什么产生了共鸣？
What is your main source of inspiration?Who is the one who most influences your artistic creation? Why do you resonate with you?
灵感来源非常的多，有时你洗澡可能有灵感就来了。如果一定要有一个具体的讨论的范围呢？可能主要来自于互联网和旅行，旅行当中看到的博物馆啊，艺术家的工作室，参观啊，还有一些艺术家出版的画册，这些都是灵感的来源。
Inspiration comes from everywhere, sometimes it comes when you take a shower. It usually comes to me from the Internet and travel, museums and artists' studio visits, and some catalogues published by artists. These are my sources of inspiration.
洛杉矶见闻，靳山摄于洛杉矶
影响自己创作的人挺多的，有的是从心灵上影响，有的是从样式上影响。有时是受积极方面事物的影响，有的时候是受到负面的事物的影响。有一些艺术家使用一些特别的图像跟材料对结构进行修正 ，跟破坏。我特别喜欢那样的艺术。我自从看那样的艺术，我马上就坠入一种爱河，不能自拔的。
当总归来讲这个非常复杂的一个问题。如果是要追根溯源来讨说这个事儿我觉得应该是我的家庭，也就是我的父亲。他是给我艺术影响创作最大的一个人，我的父亲是做舞台美术的，我五岁的时候就跟父亲去他的剧团，跟父亲在一个大的仓库里边画那种舞台的背景。地上放了各种各样的颜料的罐子特乱。（我的工作室也特别乱，现在也是那样的。我做不了那种特别干净的东西，一做就是一个黑的手印儿，我觉得我不是那样的菜，也不是那样的环境，家庭当中长出来的。）一直到最后跟着父亲看这个舞台的背景是怎么呈现在舞台上面的。前面有人在唱戏，后面就是他画的那些舞台的背景跟一些道具。我觉得这些东西对我影响是最最深刻的。我在创作，构思一个展览的时候经常是带有场景式的，所以原点可能就是来自于这里。
There are different ways in which people transform their inspiration into art, some are influenced by their soul , some are influenced by a specific pattern. Sometimes one is influence by positive things, sometimes by negative.Some artists use particular images and materials to correct structures or to destroy them. I especially like that art. Anytime I see that art I immediately fall into a river of love and that i cannot extricate myself from.
When it comes to inspiration, if i had to trace my primary source of it, I think it would have to be my family, and especially, my father. He is the one who has influenced my artistic world the most. My father is a stage artist. When I was five years old, I went to his troupe and painted the background of the stage in a large warehouse with messy jars of pigment on the ground. At the end, I went along with my father to see how the background would look on stage. Someone was singing, our stage background and some props. I think these things have had a profound impact on me. When I create and conceive an exhibition, I often think of scenery, so the origin of that might come from this experience.
Ralay, 2019
Plastic&Iron Wire&PPS, 35cmx38cmx42cm
03
你在制作和展示作品的过程中面临遇到过哪些障碍吗？
What obstacles have you encountered in the process of making and presenting your work at Night Gallery?
当时 Night Gallery 画廊给我时间特别的短，我碰到很多次这样的障碍，当然也不是第一次克服这种障碍。最大的问题就是画廊给的空间非常的狭窄。画廊整个空间长大概是有十四米，宽应该是四米。因为很窄，雕塑不太好被观看。在这么一个长条形的空间该怎么做我的作品呢？空间的限制对我来说是最大的一个障碍，但是他也是个机遇。我把 Night Gallery 这个长空间设置成了一个带有场景性质的背景。我把这个展览的主题叫镜厅，镜子的镜厅就是大厅的厅。来源于路易十四给世界各地到访的政客富商进行一个交流活动，政治演讲和开派对的这么一个空间。在展览里我把整个长的空间塑造成一个带有场景式的背景。我们把蜡纸刻成路易十四时期的那种罗马柱，把一根一根的雕好的蜡纸放在墙上面最后用火把这个蜡纸给烧掉就把这个墙给熏黑了，留下来的痕迹就正好是一个柱子焚烧完之后留下的一个痕迹。用这种一黑一白的形象来展示我的作品，就是我对于我在这个空间遇到的障碍的一个思考。
When I exhibited with Night Gallery, they gave me a particularly strict time restriction. I encountered many obstacles, and certainly not for the first time. The biggest problem was that the space I was given by the gallery was very narrow. The entire space of the gallery is about 14 meters long and four meters wide. Because of its narrowness, sculptures cannot be easily observed. How do I exhibit my work in such a long narrow space? Space limitations are the biggest obstacle for me, but they can also turn into opportunity.
I turned the elongated space of Night Gallery into a stage for my scenery. The theme of this exhibition was the mirror hall. Louis XIV used to use this kind of space to host parties and political events for businessmen and political figures from all around the world. We carved the Louis XIV period wax paper into the shape of a Roman column, placed the one piece of carved wax paper on the wall, and then finally burned it with a torch to blacken the wall, leaving traces of wax paper on it. It just happened to be a trace left after the burning of a pillar.
Relay, 2019, Plastic, Iron wire, PPS，35*38*42 cm
@Night Gallery
我就是利用了路易十四招待贵宾的房间展示和说我的故事。展示的效果挺好，大家觉得挺有意思的。有人觉得我是在画上去，我跟他们说是烧的，很多人就把鼻子凑在上面闻了一下哦，果然是有烧的那个烟熏的味道啊。
04
你的作品中预先构思的成分占了多少比重，依靠直觉的部分又有多少呢？
What is the proportion between the pre-conceived components in your work and the instinctual ones?
我的作品大部分的时候是靠直觉的。如果在作品的构思当中一定要有个百分比的话，那么有百分之40%是有一个预先构思，有60%是这靠直觉的。
Most of my work is intuitive. If i had to give an actual percentage, then 40% would be pre-conceived idea, 60% intuition.
05
你的作品经常被描述为具有挑衅性，你同意吗？讽刺在你的作品中扮演了什么角色？
Your work is often described as provocative, do you agree? What role does irony play in your work?
这一点我倒是有赞同。因为对于结构，对于图像的挑衅都有颠覆性在里边。但是讽刺性可能不最有具有代表性。在最近的几年的作品当中讽刺性有但是不多。
I agree with that. As the structures are inherently provocative, my images are definitely subversive. But irony may not be the most accurate word. In my recent works there is not much irony.
靳山作品于 Night Gallery的展览现场
Installation view at Night Gallery
06
您是否注意到任何中国观众对您的作品的反应与西方观众的差异的不同？
Have you noticed any difference in how Chinese audiences respond to your work as opposed to the Western audiences?
这个差别的不同主要来自于文化背景的不同。一般国内在交流时，尤其是在开幕式上面很少有人会问你一些跟作品的构思想法直接相关的一些问题，或者是他们有这样的想法，但不会直接问你。不清楚观众们具体想要干什么，你就很难了解观众。这和我们自己的文化表达方式有关。但美国的观众相对来说就比较容易懂。他们有问题会直接问。“ 你这个是用什么办法做的？” “你为什么要这样做？” 他可能也不是一个专业的观众，但是他有不懂的疑惑会不掩饰的抛出来，交流起来比较容易。这个我觉得就是蛮大的一个不同的。
The varying attitudes mainly come from cultural differences. In general, when exhibiting in my country, especially at the opening ceremony, few people will ask you questions that are directly related to the idea of the work. Maybe they think about it, but they will not ask you directly. It is not clear what the audience wants, and it is difficult for the artist to understand the audience. This comes from how culturally the Chinese express themselves. American audiences are relatively easy to understand. They will ask questions such as “How do you do this?" "Why are you doing this?" directly. They may not be a “professional” audience, but their doubts about the work are all laid out directly, so eventually it becomes easier to communicate. I think that is the biggest difference.
Circuit,2019, Plastic,Iron wire,PPS,Iron mesh,35*35*75cm
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